Monday, May 12, 2014

FW Summer Changes A Deeper Look

Regular readers will recall a posting I made recently about Fanfest from a Lowsec Perspective. Of particular note was the mixed bag section of the posting, where I talked about my confusion over the cloaking change and some concerns about the NPC changes. The large complex regular spawns are actually a welcome change, and require no further words from me on that front.

Now that the NDA has been sorted and CSM9 has access to a little more information, I'm able to make an update regarding my initial concerns about the proposed summer changes to FW. I can say that after speaking with CCP Fozzie at length on the matter, I am now more convinced on the direction we're headed with regards to the cloak nerf, NPC changes, and afk stabbed plex farming.

I will refer those of you who are reading to the public thread on Eve-O discussing the changes. Mentioned in there is a beef up in the active tanking capabilities of the NPCs inside the plexes along with a reduction in their own DPS, coupled with respawns.

I still have some concerns about these spawns interfering with PVP, but if they become a serious impairment to PVP, it should be possible down the line to make adjustments.

What I am pleased with, is that after seeing the numbers, the DPS barrier to offensive plexing should be raised to a point that afk plexing in poorly fit ships should be significantly impaired. The novice rat tanking 25 DPS will still be a viable place for stabs at this point, but the DPS barrier also needs to be low enough for actual newbies to be able to break as well.

Image stolen from Drackarn.
The small plex at 70, will prove a bit more difficult in a stabbed frigate to break, bearing in mind that even at 100 DPS, actual damage applied to the ship will be in line with 30 DPS. At 150 DPS, the cruisers should prove all but impossible for a frig with lows filled with stabs to break. I personally only have a couple of T1 frig fits, and they are VERY DPS heavy, that would be able to chew through medium NPCs with any ease. Those same frigs would drop below the threshold with DPS mods swapped out for stabs. Larges were already a tough nut for a single frigate to crack, and now at 300 DPS tanks, we're looking at nothing shy of a short range destroyer or AF being able to break them.

In light of this information coming to the fore, I'm happy to give these changes a chance to trickle in and see what the actual effects on farming end up being. I'm also looking forward to what the rest of the FW community thinks of the changes.

I haven't completely given up on WCS rebalance to also give a hit to overall DPS, but at this point I'm willing to give the changes already in the pipe a chance to see if they work.

In other news, week 1 of CSM9 is in the books, and we appear to be ready to get right down to business. I'm happy to report that despite claims to the contrary by some outside the CSM, the CFC has not completely taken over Eve! There was one point of change being discussed that initially put lowsec at a bit of a difference of opinion to some of the null guys, but everyone seems willing to work with each other, and differences quickly became possible solutions that would work for everyone. As I'm used to the typical tomfoolery around Eve-O and related forums, it's a refreshing thing to work with such a diverse group that is also willing to work with each other to such a degree. I must say that this is looking to be a good year for the CSM.
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15 comments:

  1. Denegrah Togasa12 May, 2014 19:29

    As a fairly new player i have to say breaking 70 dps tank is pretty daunting even in a destroyer i think i get around 100 dps out of a catalyst.

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    1. The Family12 May, 2014 20:10

      How are you fitting it? That seems incredibly low for a cat.

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    2. Anonymous13 May, 2014 10:18

      Because cats are the only destroyer...right...

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    3. Anonymous13 May, 2014 10:29

      Dat moment when responding with a mobile and your thumb was hiding *out of a cat* making the comment stupid :( and with really low skills(lvl 1/2) in everything it might be quite hard

      Delete
    4. Dersen Lowery13 May, 2014 18:13

      T1 rails, a single T1 mag stab, maybe Thorium loaded?

      It's not hard at all to get 100DPS out of a low-skill, vanilla Cat and still have it be a more useful ship than the one-trick blaster variant.

      Delete
    5. The Family14 May, 2014 00:17

      I was thinking 75mm rails with maybe lead loaded to get that low. The newbros in Noob Mercs are given derpcat destroyers that will pump out 300 DPS even in relatively unskilled hands, but those are blaster fit. My tristan fit (which has an article written about it on this blog) cranks out almost 200 with a solid buffer, and the Algos fit I have on here will crank out 448. Unfortunately, neither fit is very newbie friendly, but I know our Noob trainer charlie has low SP t1 versions of both ships that are only maybe 20% worse than those optimal fits.

      The changes will definitely favor high DPS low range setups though, especially for newer pilots using frigates.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous13 May, 2014 12:03

    VERY glad to see those numbers, F.B. That actually makes me slightly more hopeful of the changes in general, as seeing no changes made to warp stabs in the first announcement made steam shoot out of my ears.

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    1. The Family14 May, 2014 00:18

      Yeah me too. I'm willing to see how this plays out in practice before renewing the call for a stab rebalance. IF this doesn't work as intended, we'll have more traction for it.

      Delete
  3. Braver13 May, 2014 16:40

    150 DPS with a frigate? Ehm no Rifter, Slasher, NeutTristan will be able to break these tanks o.O Or am I missing something?

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    1. The Family14 May, 2014 00:22

      In a medium plex, the target ship to run it is likely a destroyer. The damage these things put out is negligible, so it's basically a burst DPS race. You can pump close to 200 DPS out of some frigates, my tristan fit immediately comes to mind, but you're talking about some very serious skills to pull that off. If you want to do the bigger sites, a destroyer will almost certainly be a necessity at the least, especially for lower skilled pilots.

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    2. Braver14 May, 2014 07:48

      Mmh.

      It is a good thing that farmers will have a harder time, but it also makes it harder for new players.
      At least the DPS was lowered, so they won't interfere that much with PvP.

      And it is an incentive to be more often with bigger ships in plexes.

      Mmh, seems like shopping time xD

      Delete
  4. Anonymous14 May, 2014 12:54

    And what about ships that fit tank/nanos/... rather than damage mods in their lows? They'll be "cripled" the same way as stabbed farmers. I really don't want to spend half a time in plex killing tanked NPCs because I like tank more than overwhelming DPS. Also, this will favor short range weapons over long range ones, which I think will lower diversity in plexes...

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    1. Anonymous14 May, 2014 12:59

      Also, now T1 frigs can go into any plex without bigger problems. This change will put upper limit to where every ship can go, because why would I go into medium in my Incursus, when I can't even kill a NPC there faster than I'd complete novice plex next door.

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  5. Simyaldee17 May, 2014 03:03

    The new numbers with the rats also changed my minds about these changes.

    Always was in support of the reintroduction of large plexes.

    The cloak ban will do almost nothing. Pulsing an MWD or even an AB will take you out of range the minute something shows up on gate. Their will be a small shakeup in the first few weeks as the botting programs adjust but other than that nothing significant will happen.

    BTW unlike what most people are saying you can't sit at 29.9 KM and then move out immediately. To capture the plex you need to be within 20KM of the timer. However, most frigates could probably accomplish burning out of range in time. Prop Mod or not.

    I flinched slightly when I heard the new numbers. It will sting for newer players who struggle to fit and/or apply DPS. Kiting fits and Armor Tanking fits will be hurt the most. My dual rep incursus included :(. But this WILL shake up AFK-Farming pretty significantly. It wouldn't put an immediate stop to it like a WCS ban would but the effect should be fairly significant.

    Even with a Blaster Catalyst, new skill accounts struggle to put up the requisite DPS for Mediums. Plus the Catalyst only has three lows for stabs and no spare high slot for a cloak making it inferior for AFK-Plexing.

    The changes will raise the bar skillwise for new players though. Which is what irks me the most about implementing this and not banning WCS from plexes. I mean they nerf CLOAKING. The third ranked difficulty of farmers behind Stabs and not enough penalty for leaving a plex. And the only one them that actually had positives for leaving it in. IE cloaky hunter ships, Astero etc.

    But then Again, this is Fozzie, who seems to think that a range bonus on the Ferox is perfectly fine.

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  6. Anonymous25 May, 2014 20:05

    the biggest tragedy is the loss of cloaky hunting ships. my dual scram astero was the only ship i could viably hunt farmers in. its bad enough i already had to risk roughly 100m ISK just to kill a 1m ISK frigate, but now we are left with nothing in the arsenal.

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